How to animate lip sync?

Discussion in 'Editing Help' started by Tigrin, Apr 23, 2017.

  1. Tigrin

    Tigrin Member

    Hey guys. So I was wondering how other editors approach lip sync. Since I have no idea what I'm doing particularly, this is how I typically handle lip sync in a scale of difficulty:

    - Try to find a shot that conveniently seems to match the lip sync I want
    - Kind of cut out frames and stuff to get the mouth movements I want
    - Actually pull out frames into Photoshop from a sequence, isolate certain mouths, then bring them back in and paste as needed over the existing face ._. Possibly use masks.

    Since I only have Premiere I'm a little limited. I'm an animator so you think I'd know how to do this stuff, but in the past when I've tried actually animating lip sync, I was told it looked bad, I think because it doesn't match the style expected from anime. When I see lip sync done in AMVs sometimes it looks as if the mouth has been isolated and rapidly scaled open and closed to create a talking movement. I wonder if there are certain rules of thumb or anything to make lip sync in AMVs look convincing.

    Thanks for any tips you might have. Please try not to be sarcastic, haha.
  2. Replay

    Replay Administrator Staff Member

    It does depend on the shot for me, but usually it starts with me getting some lip flaps prepared, then I cover the original lip flap and then put mine in. Depending on the shot, that could be easy or good amount of work
  3. Voice From Moon

    Voice From Moon Member New

    It's pretty much the same in my experience. Only matching actual lip-flap to words will give you boring results at best. Since usually mouth is given 3 frames, open, semi-open, closed. It's very unnatural looking. More serious song, would require much more believable lip-synch and quite easily could ruin whole work. So in general scenes with more varied mouth movement could help you a lot, but to sell that illusion body movement and matching character physicality helps tremendously more. Most optimal routine for me tend to be to find well fitting scene then reshuffling it on mere frame basis and if needed shifting work on AE to match mouth movement itself. Complicated shots which have even jaw movement during talking or shots from the side might require cleaning/redrawing in PS.
    Even going through all that hassle, sometimes just doesn't give needed results if shot wasn't good in the first place. And to top that off, it's not very entertaining to look at talking faces in general.
  4. mittoh!

    mittoh! Guest

    Lip sync is great. Its really underused. While the best lip sync is usually a one frame by one frame basis in photoshop, its not the only solution.
    Anime is awful at realism. Jaws are usually completely still when they talk, as to create whole episodes in a week, animators will often just create 4 mouth positions and approximate those.
    Soooo... Its a totally reasonable thing to use masks, and place stills of those frames underneath a scene.
    When im being lazy and/or there is a moving background, I'll abuse the velocity tool- not sure if this is in premiere, but basically its a little overlay on the clip for me in vegas that i can use to manipulate the speed at which the scene passes.
    Here i used it for a particular scene in 'lolifield'- It got me a way inferior scene than if i had done it by hand, but it allowed me to keep a moving background and hair flying in the wind within like 20 mins of work lol
    1) sped up through nothing
    2) full speed through a part so that it 'skipped' over some talking frames when rendering
    3) repeat an end scene and praying nobody noticed the background reset (lol)
    but yeah i recommend looking for a similar tool in premiere if there is one, that prevented me making 30+ frames by hand.

    there is nothing worse than 'approximate' lipsync. It takes away from the video. If the scene is too hard to me to mask lip movement, I use velocity. If velocity isnt producing a correct result, better to find an alternative scene or not to sync at all.
    If you want it to look good, spend time making it look exactly perfect, matching the length of words and pace of the talking. Sync might not matter when watching subbed anime but it does when its the main attraction.

    my rule of thumb is usually to do very short bursts of lipsync a few times in a section.

    I might have got sidetracked, but i hope it was helpful or something :p
  5. FoxJones

    FoxJones the Foxiest

    I have a love/hate relationship (more like hate/love/hate) with lipsync. I end up doing videos that has parts which kind of require lipsync, and I really dislike working with those parts. I see lipsync more like an additional flavor, which I don't want to take the main focus in my videos, so I end up intentionally half-assing it. Methods I use are pretty much what Tigrin listed.
    This is why I kind of prefer using instrumentals, for with those I can't end up adding lipsync -> no need to kick myself for doing lipsync. Though, I made one AMV where I tried to lipsync with music, just for shit and giggles. Result was sort of like:
  6. Tigrin

    Tigrin Member

    Thanks! This was helpful. :D
  7. seasons

    seasons Member

    I can't imagine what this means, or maybe I can but it's totally ridiculous.
  8. Shiryouiro

    Shiryouiro ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Personally I usually mask the mouth so cutting doesn't disturb any movement on the background. If the background doesn't have any movement I just do basic cuts to fit the talking/singing
  9. Achon

    Achon New Member

    Haunter103 actually make an incredibly informative video about Lip Syncing. I suggest you give it a look.
  10. darth_brando

    darth_brando New Member

    topics old so idk if ya still need help on it but if ya do here is something that might help ya a bit.

    in animation due to frame rate and bit that its well animation, lip movements are done based on vowel sound. aside from open/closed and emotes what you want for believable lip movements with out going uncanny valley or making it seem awkward vs the original anime's style... is to use the basic AEIOU vowel movements.

    How To Draw Manga has this in one of their books but i forget which one, for references of such is to look up some notable memes where the character is doing this (yameroooo!, uwu, ect...) or to spam the pause play n rewind buttons when watching and listening to some anime (use sub not dub)

    but like the issue mostly being that for most part in animation emotes aside (smile/frown/scowl) like they only animate the vowel sounds.

    once you have either picked footage of character that matches the words (or picked words that match the footage) you basically want to line them up so that you transition from closed to open on the vowel sound movement with proper emote style during the whole audio duration of the word.

    how this transition happens on speed depends more than just speed of the word or bpm of the music though. this does change with emotion.

    for example angered words are quick to open short duration of open and quick snap closed to scowl/bare teeth except when word ends in a vowel or jus "kyaaaaaaa!" dbz style where you want to keep it open n do the speedline quaking bit.

    anyhow hope this helps if ya still need the help if not hey have some trivia.


    forgot to add---> for multisylabic words the mouth pauses or closes on consonants during animation. this is mostly for use on longer words that are like 3 or 4+ sylables.

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