Let's talk about these 30 second videos

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by CrackTheSky, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. CrackTheSky

    CrackTheSky Administrator Staff Member

    So, recently in the Discord there's been some discussion around a certain type of AMV that has been gaining in popularity over the last couple years: really short, super-heavily edited, effectsy videos, typically lasting no more than 30 seconds. I'm just trying to figure out the appeal of this style, because I don't get it. I'm talking about stuff like this:

    Like, those of you who enjoy these videos -- what do you get out of them? Why do you watch and/or edit them? Why not expand these ideas into full-length videos and make something memorable, instead of something obviously and (seemingly) intentionally disposable?

    This might be a generational thing, I'm just trying to figure this out. I know that platforms like Vine and Instagram have propagated this style of editing, and I wonder if it's actually beneficial to the community. Call me a cranky old guy (you wouldn't be wrong), but these types of videos are certainly not my style in any way, shape, or form, and I'm struggling to understand the mindset that leads people to watch them.

    Help me out here!
  2. Dr. Derpface

    Dr. Derpface Make AMV's Great Again Staff Member

    AMV's for the ADD crowd.

    Source: Am old man.
  3. Niotex

    Niotex Administrator Staff Member

    I think it's more about getting a potential concept out without committing to a "full" video. Generally, to me at least, it seems that these are videos that wouldn't work in the full format so the only way they'd be tackled in the first place is in this gimped form. I don't think these are meant to be comprehensive "whole" videos in that sense, more so "concepts". Or maybe it's just a matter of wanting to show off what they figured out to do in their NLE of choice. Gotta put those generic tutorials to good use after all.
    FoxJones likes this.
  4. seasons

    seasons Member

    5 second AMVs have arrived.
  5. seasons

    seasons Member

    Inevitably, someone will come in here and say, this isn't new okay check this out *drops mic*

    But no, that has nothing to do with this stuff.
  6. Lirinis

    Lirinis New Member

    By the way we at AMVnews now have dedicated contests for short looped videos. At the moment It's limited to the coub.com platform but theoretically could be expanded to include Instagram. Check out the finalists of Cubicon 2 here or all the submitted works here.

    Short vids are much more suitable for mobile watching and the social networks which are overloaded with content. You have only a few seconds to deliver your idea until a typical user scrolls down to the next thing in the feed. Short dense works get way more likes and views.
  7. Dr. Derpface

    Dr. Derpface Make AMV's Great Again Staff Member

    Of course I talk shit, then remember I had my own short af video a few years back....
  8. FoxJones

    FoxJones the Foxiest

    I think some of these can be explained with that they are just.. practice. Editor just wants to try out things, what they can do with their editing programs, so no need to overthink stuff like plot or message or concept or depth. Just take one anime that's usable and use any music that he/she likes and go crazy. Then after he/she had enough playing with it, it's ready and just post it on the net "Look what I made!"

    Other thing is that these are so heavy on eyecandy effects.. so I think it's a good thing they are short. I know that I, after 30s of those types of videos, am already fed up with it and want to move on to the next one. Call it ADD-generation if you want, but I actually think that, in the deep down, it really is the same with both us old ones (from the depths) AND with the younger generations. BOTH of our generations really doesn't have the stomach to take whole 3-4 minutes of constant effect-editing.. whether we realise it or not.
  9. Dr. Derpface

    Dr. Derpface Make AMV's Great Again Staff Member

    The best effects are ones you don't even realize are effects, since at the end of the day, they're really just tools. And there are parallels with everything from photography to woodworking in that. If you're just using a tool because it's available, you're not likely to get a satisfactory result if you don't focus on making the project work as a whole.

    I think that's why a lot of effect-heavy videos tend to cause viewer fatigue. The focus is on the eye-candy, and not on the "nuts and bolts" as it were. Just like a master carpenter can turn a high-end bowl or vase with nothing but a skew and a clapped out lathe, while the newbie with an assortment of high end gouges and digital speed control lathe will still end up having a catch embed their fancy tools in the nearest wall.
    FoxJones likes this.
  10. CrackTheSky

    CrackTheSky Administrator Staff Member

    I disagree. I don't mind constant effects, and I think in the end most people probably don't, if they're done well. I actually wrote a longwinded post on my blog about pretty much this exact thing here if you care to read it; effects use isn't necessarily the point of this thread so I won't continue down this conversational path for now.

    But I think in general you and Nio are probably on to something as far as why these types of videos are being created -- practice, "getting out a concept", etc, this all makes sense to me and it's probably at least a part of their existence. My curiosity is actually aimed more towards those who consume them. What value do those of you who watch them get out of these videos? This may actually be a deeper question than a thread like this warrants (i.e. why do you watch/enjoy AMVs at all?), I don't know, but this is something I'm trying to wrap my head around. I just don't get it -- they're too short to get anything out of them emotionally, too short to really enjoy any kind of concept beyond an aesthetic one (and, let's be honest, these videos all look more or less exactly the same, so surely it's old hat by now?), etc. What itch does this scratch that something more developed wouldn't, only many times better?
  11. Dr. Derpface

    Dr. Derpface Make AMV's Great Again Staff Member

    Honestly, that's the main reason I had my "AMV's for the ADD generation" quip. People just don't seem to have the patience for things anymore, even if it's well done. It's we ended up with things like giphy, vine, etc. becoming so popular. The average person's attention span seems to be getting closer and closer to that of a goldfish, unfortunately.
  12. seasons

    seasons Member

    Any time you make a 30 second or 15 second or 7 second video in this vein, there's always the implicit disclaimer of "I was just messing around" or "I wasn't even trying very hard," which is essential to Not Giving A Fuck, which no one of a certain age can never, ever be caught dead doing.

    And when you're so obviously Not Even Trying, that makes your works immune to any criticism.

    It also makes inflates the worth of any praise that you receive. Like, since you're so obviously Not Even Trying, it then goes without saying that if you were, this awesome video would definitely be better by an unimaginable magnitude. It's so certain, in fact, that actually putting in the time to do so isn't even necessary to prove it.
  13. seasons

    seasons Member

    Am I out of my mind here? Be honest.
  14. Replay

    Replay Administrator Staff Member

    exactly what I was thinking
  15. Enigmo

    Enigmo Member

    Oh my, can't believe I did not see this interesting topic that I've wanted to discuss with you mature editors for some time ^_^ Probably because my account has been forced to make the site slow whenever I sign in ^_^

    So, why do people make 30 second videos?

    Video editing in its broadest sense is mostly a field to do with technical knowledge; not a field of literature. You can make videos of literary value, sure, but that's kind of a "sub-genre" or w/e of video editing... So, it's kind of :////// for you to consider those seeking technical skill in video editing over presenting a story/concept as being something abnormal or worthy of a frown (i havent read if any of u are placing more merit in emotional story vids over technical-intensive vids, but that's just the general vibe i get from a fair amount of old org editors) .

    So, what does technical/effects vs storytelling/concept have to do with making 30 sec videos? Well, I've just observed for myself, editors who make short videos learn way more technical skills than those who have been making 3-minute (story) amvs their entire time as an editor. Reasons include that 30 secs is enough for me to test my execution of some technical thing, and if I'm happy, I can move onto learning even more new things, or if I'm not happy, I can try again with new anime/music for new ideas/inspiration, rather than spending days/months a 3-minute long video of me failing at this same technical thing.

    You have full videos of high technical skill like Spoil and Into The Labyrinth and the reason why a full AMV high in technical skill like those two will blow people away is because of how good the technical knowledge shown in the videos are. For those vids u linked in the first post, if u saw an amv of that level of technical skill, it's not going to be "memorable" even if it's 3 mins long. Those editors will only have the same level of impact as ITL and Spoil with a full once their technical skill is on a similar level, and they're not going to gain any technical improvement from extending 30 seconds of mediocrity to 3 mins of mediocrity. Better to make a 30 second mediocre video; then, a new slightly less mediocre 30 sec vid; then after that 4 more 30 sec vids each with a progressive decline in mediocrity and bam....3 minutes worth of 30 sec vids where the editor has made 6 instances of improvement, over one 3 minute video where the editor has stayed at the same level of mediocrity. (Enigmo's Diminishing Mediocrity Model, 2018)

    I make short videos for other reasons, even videos that have concepts.

    Now, i aint tryna brag, but this 40 sec was enough for me to present to you my (very original ^_^) concept. It has an intro, a body, a conclusion. The only shortcomings of the video are that I won't be able to get length enthusiasts like yourselves to take an interest in it, or enter it into contests and have it gain more presence in the community...but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but i shouldnt bring myself into comparison, it feels like mentioning quentin tarintino while commenting on michael bay movies hah am i right gentlemen

    as for watching short videos...well, 99% of amvs are badly edited so as a viewer i'd prefer to put myself through 30 secs of suffering over 180 seconds of suffering. also, not everyone is looking to be "emotionally invested" with a japanese cartoon being synced to a song by an amateur video editor. all this being said, i dont watch those short videos and in early 2017 was very toxic towards their community but now they love me and upload my AMVs to their community channels
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  16. Kroner

    Kroner Noob Member

    I haven't read all your previous comments so I might be repetitive, but I want to say mine about this plague that's invading every social networks. 30s or less amvs should not be called amvs, and not because of their time, but 'cause there is nothing behind them. An amv is not only clips with some music, it's connecting music and images to make something that synergize together, and this doesn't mean you have to create a story, feelings or represent an idea, it's just that watching an amv you should feel like music and images were born to be together and you should feel them as one. Those vids ( I'll not going to call them amvs!!!) are just random clips full of effects without a connection between sources and music, actually you can put any anime you want with the same effects and the results will be the same. Don't you believe me?
    (this what made by someone who share my opinion about this kind of vid). They are made by people who thinks that effects are more importants than the clip itself, but effects should be functional to the video, and imho they are functional when they're silent. I'm not saying that we must respect specific rules, we're just amateur so that's secondary, but putting rap music with flashes, distortions, BAD twixtor, super strong CC, without sync it's not making an amv. You can see people calling genius someone who put 3k effects in 5s vid cause the previous genius only used 2k effects. I image them like this: "let me see how many effects and presets I have.....mmm let's take this, this and this, uh, also this one, this one I even don't know what it does but who cares!"

    In short: THEY SUCKS!
  17. seasons

    seasons Member

    Just doing a quick search for "AMV Vines" (which I should have just done in the first place) got me this as the top result.

    All my impressions of that platform were formed around videos of some guy playing guitar with his dog and watching this. I kind of missed that people were using it to make these videos with anime clips and basically redefining the entire idea of AMVs for a new generation right under our noses.

    Nothing good could come of this, whatever some trendy experts on millennial culture will try to tell you otherwise.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  18. PirateNinjaKitteh

    PirateNinjaKitteh "You seek answers. I can give you purpose."

    I think it is more or less a “generation thing.” My nieces are 11, and they spend all of their time on the TikTok app - these platforms only allow short videos...so whereas 7 or so years ago, we had a lot of 12 year olds trying their hand at AMV editing on YouTube, people are now changing up their platform. Computers are less common. A lot of kids these days edit videos with their phones. The new generation just doesn’t have the attention span for a 2 minute video.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2021
  19. Replay

    Replay Administrator Staff Member

    @PirateNinjaKitteh That is a great point. People are casually editing on their phones. Example app is the one from adobe, premiere rush and of course, apps like Tik Tok, etc
  20. I have asked questions about this as well. Someone mentioned that people are getting lazy and want something that they can watch without taking up alot of time. I dont get it honestl . I mean, I've seen some that are amazing and have tried making a few myself but I just dont like it. I instead turned to intros of songs and i must say that it worked. This video has gained popularity faster than all the others. However I have had multiple requests to finish the entire song so that is now my current project


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